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	<title>Comments on: Do Jews Have a Divine Right in the Promised Land?</title>
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	<link>http://ajgibson.org/blog/2009/10/02/do-jews-have-a-divine-right-in-the-promised-land/</link>
	<description>&#34;. . . grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.&#34;</description>
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		<title>By: AJ</title>
		<link>http://ajgibson.org/blog/2009/10/02/do-jews-have-a-divine-right-in-the-promised-land/comment-page-1/#comment-467</link>
		<dc:creator>AJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 19:23:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajgibson.org/blog/?p=555#comment-467</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Craig.  Great to hear from you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Craig.  Great to hear from you!</p>
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		<title>By: Craig Johnson</title>
		<link>http://ajgibson.org/blog/2009/10/02/do-jews-have-a-divine-right-in-the-promised-land/comment-page-1/#comment-466</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 16:32:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajgibson.org/blog/?p=555#comment-466</guid>
		<description>AJ,

Good summary of Israel&#039;s status and of God&#039;s covenants.  Well said.

I just watched your ministry video and your dancing elf video.  Both are fantastic!

Are you pre-trib?

Hope you guys are well.  I&#039;m thankful to God for your ministry.

Craig</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AJ,</p>
<p>Good summary of Israel&#8217;s status and of God&#8217;s covenants.  Well said.</p>
<p>I just watched your ministry video and your dancing elf video.  Both are fantastic!</p>
<p>Are you pre-trib?</p>
<p>Hope you guys are well.  I&#8217;m thankful to God for your ministry.</p>
<p>Craig</p>
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		<title>By: AJ</title>
		<link>http://ajgibson.org/blog/2009/10/02/do-jews-have-a-divine-right-in-the-promised-land/comment-page-1/#comment-459</link>
		<dc:creator>AJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 15:47:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajgibson.org/blog/?p=555#comment-459</guid>
		<description>Hi Jeremy!  I’m glad that at least one of the three readers of this blog decided to comment on this post. :)

I agree with several things you said and would like to add some nuance to them.  In addition, I’d like to explain a little bit further where I’m coming from on this.

1. God’s covenant with Abraham included the promise that his seed would finally dwell in the land and the final fulfillment of that promise is unconditional.  That means that someday Abraham’s seed—those who inherit the promises—will inherit the land.  No doubt about that.

2. The promise of the land has not been revoked.  That is, God’s promise that Abraham’s seed will someday inherit the land still stands.

3. The Old (Mosaic) Covenant was an administrative covenant that administered God’s relationship with Abraham’s seed.  Israel’s enjoyment of the benefits of the covenant was dependent upon her obedience of the conditions of the covenant, namely the law.  In other words, possession of the land at any given point in time was dependent upon her status as covenant people.  Yahweh said as much when he made the covenant: “&lt;span style=&quot;text-decoration: underline;&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;If &lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/span&gt;you will indeed obey my voice and keep my covenant, you shall be my treasured possession among all peoples” (Ex 19:5).  Built into the Old Covenant was a set of harsh sanctions that, when enacted, would remove Israel from her covenant status.  In Deuteronomy 27-28 these sanctions are called “the curse.” When Israel fails to obey the covenant they would fall under his curse, rendering them as a nation just like all the other cursed nations of the earth.  The curse included, among many other things, losing the privilege to dwell in the presence of Yahwah, the land (just as happened to Adam and Even when they broke the covenant).  The prophets frequently reflect upon Israel’s status as a cursed people.  God inspired Hosea to tell Israel “you are not my people, and I am not your God” (1:9).  This was not some kind of reckless hyperbole.  Nor are they the words of a modern anti-Semite.  They’re God’s words.  As I said in my original post “&lt;span style=&quot;text-decoration: underline;&quot;&gt;if the conditions of God’s covenant with Israel mean anything&lt;/span&gt;”—that is, if we really take seriously the sanctions and curse proclaimed in the law, then we must conclude that Israel is currently in the same condition in which she found herself in Hosea: “not my people.”  So it’s vitally important to understand that the right to possess the land is conditioned upon Israel’s status within the covenant.  Under the curse of Deuteronomy, Israel has been driven out of the Promised Land by God himself (Dan 9:7).  They are under the sanctions of the law.  They are being divinely punished for their sin and currently hold no Divine claim to the land.  As Paul says in Romans 11, they have been “cut off” from the olive tree of God’s covenant people.

4. God, because of his faithfulness to his promises to Abraham, always held out the offer to Israel to return to covenant status.  That offer, as you point out, was conditioned upon Israel’s repentance and obedience.  The problem was (and continues to be) that Israel never has and never will be able to meet the conditions of the Old Covenant.  The law can, finally, only bring a curse.  That’s where the New Covenant comes in.  Under the New Covenant God promises to do an internal work in the hearts of Israel so that they can obey him and live before him in covenant faithfulness.  So Old Testament New Covenant passages like Jer 31 and Ezek 36-37 make it clear that it will not be under the Old, Mosaic Covenant that Israel is restored to covenant status, &lt;span style=&quot;text-decoration: underline;&quot;&gt;but under the New Covenant&lt;/span&gt;.  Both in Jeremiah 31 and Ezekiel 36-37 Israel is promised a return to land when they are restored as God’s covenant people under the New Covenant.  It is then, and only then that “I will be their God and they shall be my people” (Ezek 37:23, 27).  It is then that, to use Hosea’s words, “in the place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ it shall be said to them, ‘Children of the living God.’&quot;  It is only &lt;span style=&quot;text-decoration: underline;&quot;&gt;as children&lt;/span&gt; that Israel will inherit the promises made to Abraham’s seed.

5. Now what about Israel’s present occupation of Palestine?  As a theologically informed observer, I can see God working now in Israel in preparation to fulfill his promise to someday save all of Israel.  I believe that Israel as a nation will someday turn to the Messiah, repent of her sins, and participate in the blessings of the New Covenant (cf. Rom 11).  And God’s ongoing work in the nation of Israel confirms my belief that someday Israel will be grafted back with us into the covenant people of God and thus inherit the promised rest—i.e., the land (Heb 4).   But they still don’t own it in a New Covenant sense.  Our support for Israel should be on the grounds of fairness and human justice and we should treat the Palestinians with the same fairness and justice.  To argue (on emotional grounds) that Israel has a Divine right to own the whole land at this time and that we should drive the Palestinians out after they’ve lived there for hundreds of years we are not understanding Israel’s current condition, I think.  Jesus Christ will settle this at his coming when Israel turns to him and once again enters the covenant (when, to use Romans 11, they’re grafted back into the tree of God’s covenant people).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jeremy!  I’m glad that at least one of the three readers of this blog decided to comment on this post. <img src='http://ajgibson.org/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I agree with several things you said and would like to add some nuance to them.  In addition, I’d like to explain a little bit further where I’m coming from on this.</p>
<p>1. God’s covenant with Abraham included the promise that his seed would finally dwell in the land and the final fulfillment of that promise is unconditional.  That means that someday Abraham’s seed—those who inherit the promises—will inherit the land.  No doubt about that.</p>
<p>2. The promise of the land has not been revoked.  That is, God’s promise that Abraham’s seed will someday inherit the land still stands.</p>
<p>3. The Old (Mosaic) Covenant was an administrative covenant that administered God’s relationship with Abraham’s seed.  Israel’s enjoyment of the benefits of the covenant was dependent upon her obedience of the conditions of the covenant, namely the law.  In other words, possession of the land at any given point in time was dependent upon her status as covenant people.  Yahweh said as much when he made the covenant: “<span style="text-decoration: underline;"><em><strong>If </strong></em></span>you will indeed obey my voice and keep my covenant, you shall be my treasured possession among all peoples” (Ex 19:5).  Built into the Old Covenant was a set of harsh sanctions that, when enacted, would remove Israel from her covenant status.  In Deuteronomy 27-28 these sanctions are called “the curse.” When Israel fails to obey the covenant they would fall under his curse, rendering them as a nation just like all the other cursed nations of the earth.  The curse included, among many other things, losing the privilege to dwell in the presence of Yahwah, the land (just as happened to Adam and Even when they broke the covenant).  The prophets frequently reflect upon Israel’s status as a cursed people.  God inspired Hosea to tell Israel “you are not my people, and I am not your God” (1:9).  This was not some kind of reckless hyperbole.  Nor are they the words of a modern anti-Semite.  They’re God’s words.  As I said in my original post “<span style="text-decoration: underline;">if the conditions of God’s covenant with Israel mean anything</span>”—that is, if we really take seriously the sanctions and curse proclaimed in the law, then we must conclude that Israel is currently in the same condition in which she found herself in Hosea: “not my people.”  So it’s vitally important to understand that the right to possess the land is conditioned upon Israel’s status within the covenant.  Under the curse of Deuteronomy, Israel has been driven out of the Promised Land by God himself (Dan 9:7).  They are under the sanctions of the law.  They are being divinely punished for their sin and currently hold no Divine claim to the land.  As Paul says in Romans 11, they have been “cut off” from the olive tree of God’s covenant people.</p>
<p>4. God, because of his faithfulness to his promises to Abraham, always held out the offer to Israel to return to covenant status.  That offer, as you point out, was conditioned upon Israel’s repentance and obedience.  The problem was (and continues to be) that Israel never has and never will be able to meet the conditions of the Old Covenant.  The law can, finally, only bring a curse.  That’s where the New Covenant comes in.  Under the New Covenant God promises to do an internal work in the hearts of Israel so that they can obey him and live before him in covenant faithfulness.  So Old Testament New Covenant passages like Jer 31 and Ezek 36-37 make it clear that it will not be under the Old, Mosaic Covenant that Israel is restored to covenant status, <span style="text-decoration: underline;">but under the New Covenant</span>.  Both in Jeremiah 31 and Ezekiel 36-37 Israel is promised a return to land when they are restored as God’s covenant people under the New Covenant.  It is then, and only then that “I will be their God and they shall be my people” (Ezek 37:23, 27).  It is then that, to use Hosea’s words, “in the place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ it shall be said to them, ‘Children of the living God.’&#8221;  It is only <span style="text-decoration: underline;">as children</span> that Israel will inherit the promises made to Abraham’s seed.</p>
<p>5. Now what about Israel’s present occupation of Palestine?  As a theologically informed observer, I can see God working now in Israel in preparation to fulfill his promise to someday save all of Israel.  I believe that Israel as a nation will someday turn to the Messiah, repent of her sins, and participate in the blessings of the New Covenant (cf. Rom 11).  And God’s ongoing work in the nation of Israel confirms my belief that someday Israel will be grafted back with us into the covenant people of God and thus inherit the promised rest—i.e., the land (Heb 4).   But they still don’t own it in a New Covenant sense.  Our support for Israel should be on the grounds of fairness and human justice and we should treat the Palestinians with the same fairness and justice.  To argue (on emotional grounds) that Israel has a Divine right to own the whole land at this time and that we should drive the Palestinians out after they’ve lived there for hundreds of years we are not understanding Israel’s current condition, I think.  Jesus Christ will settle this at his coming when Israel turns to him and once again enters the covenant (when, to use Romans 11, they’re grafted back into the tree of God’s covenant people).</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy M</title>
		<link>http://ajgibson.org/blog/2009/10/02/do-jews-have-a-divine-right-in-the-promised-land/comment-page-1/#comment-458</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Oct 2009 13:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ajgibson.org/blog/?p=555#comment-458</guid>
		<description>AJ,

I would disagree with this conclusion. Here is a summary of my reasons and I would enjoy hearing your response:
1. The original covenant made to Abraham included the land, but it was unconditional.
2. The promise of the land has not been revoked, but the privilege of living on the land was conditional. God promised they would be scattered from the land if they did not obey and observe his commands, but that promise was almost always, if not always countered by the statement that when they repent God will gather them, even from the four corners of the earth, back to their land.
3. If Israel is back living in their land, it must be by the direct providence of God and therefore they have a right to be there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AJ,</p>
<p>I would disagree with this conclusion. Here is a summary of my reasons and I would enjoy hearing your response:<br />
1. The original covenant made to Abraham included the land, but it was unconditional.<br />
2. The promise of the land has not been revoked, but the privilege of living on the land was conditional. God promised they would be scattered from the land if they did not obey and observe his commands, but that promise was almost always, if not always countered by the statement that when they repent God will gather them, even from the four corners of the earth, back to their land.<br />
3. If Israel is back living in their land, it must be by the direct providence of God and therefore they have a right to be there.</p>
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